TOPIC:

Hello, as i get more and more into Lake Michigan fishing,  I am starting to expand my repertoire.  Last year i have added Dipsys and downriggers successfully.  This coming year I am going to be adding wire dipsys and pump handles. 
My question is on pump handles.  Does anyone have a good depth dive curve when running 10 oz snap ons at 2 and 2.5 mph?
I will be running them on TX -44 boards. 
Also i have some torpedo 12 oz cudas which do have published dive curves and for the most part seem to go almost straight down. 
Has anyone ran the torpedo cudas? And even better yet on TX-44's?
Just looking for insight as to what to expect as this will be new to me.  Any info appreciated, thanks in advance 

Never tried them but Russel Gahagan has a youtube tech video on them.  

I haven’t put one out in years. But they’re pretty effective for lakers. Best is to set it back so it bumps bottom in between waves. So many factors to determine depth... speed, line size/type, lure, dodger or spin dr, etc. Just put it out there and play with it is my advice. Check it frequently for mussels and weeds on the hooks. Running single hooks will help. I know Bro Nature will have some tips. Pretty sure he just uses a wire dipsy in that role these days.

Baron2150 wrote:

Never tried them but Russel Gahagan has a youtube tech video on them. 



Thanks, I will look him up
 

I wasn't sure what you were referring to about Pump Handles, so I Googled it and see it's basically a line with a big-azz sinker on it.  I watched Russel Gahagan's video about them.  Back in the day, we would use similar rigs to these for lake trout.  Lakers weren't so numerous and the weighted lines caught more trout than downriggers. At that time we used "sinker releases" so we could hit bottom with a weight and didn't have to crank up the weight and the fish. Mostly we used 20 pound wire line for these, since braid hadn't been invented, either. 

Now that I've seen Gahagan's video, I'm still not switching over. Remember one thing, he's a charter boater and a tournament guy. The success of his trips are measured in the pounds of fish in his cooler at the end of the day. For most people on this forum, the measure of success should be how much fun and excitement you and your fishing partners experienced.  I guarantee you'll not have much fun cranking in a fish with a giant-sized planer and a pound of lead on the line.  I've been on boats where people argued about who's turn it was to reel in a fish on a 400 or 600 copper. Not to get to the rod, rather to pawn it off on the other guy. 

Remember, according to Gahagan, he uses them target 40 to 60 feet of depth. Both braid and wire divers can easily put lures that deep (or deeper). I've been using 1 to 3 ounce (mostly 2s) snap weights on leadcore, copper and weighted steel lines the last couple years to get them deeper than they'd normally go and only rarely get out my 300s or 10 color rigs. 

Back to the pump handles -- if you do choose to go this way, I suggest, as Gahagen says, two or three to a side and pretty well keep the size of the weights the same on each side, otherwise tangles are likely.  Also, you'll need to make very gentle turns to avoid tangles. 

 


 

Thanks BN for your insight. My goal with this setup is to get some lures into the strikezone at some distance from the boat without running copper or lead. I'm still going to run my 3 and 1 setting dipsys and downriggers off each side.
I was going to run weighted steel but this looks like an easy setup to run. Going to start with just 1 off each side at first then either run a second set of planers or run stackers off my riggers. I am going to set the planers to release so i fight the fish and not the board.
 

There’s a reason about 99% of the people use long weighted lines (ie lead core, weighted steel or copper) instead of either heavy balls or Torpedo Divers - pump handles. 

I watched the Gahagan video and I’m still skeptical.  My impression is doing these would have two things going against it. One, if you are trying to put two or three on a side, as Gahagan says he does, I can only imagine they would be prone to tangling, either when setting them or when turning. More important I think it would be almost impossible to put one out over the top of Dipsey Divers.  

If, like Gahagan, you are trying to position these 40 to 60 feet deep, that’s a bit deep for leadcores but well within range of weighted steel or copper line. Plus the long lines, I think, would be more tolerant of speed changes. I’d guess a couple tenths of a mph would have a much more drastic affect on a pump handle rig than a weighted line.  I think depth positioning would be more guesswork than anything.  

As far as “sportiness” when comparing a long line with a heavy weight on the line, at least with a long line, the closer to the boat, the less heavy line in the water, the more you will feel the fight of the fish.  When you start with a heavy pump handle weight on the line, it stays there (in Gahagan’s method) until the leader is to the rod tip - 17 feet. Remove the weight, turn the reel handle 4 or 5 cranks more and the fish is in the net.  

For the same reason, if I had to use these, I wouldn’t fix the in line planer to release since it will slide down to the weight. Now you have 3/4 pound of weight and a big ol’ planer board dangling on the line a few yards up from the fish. If you have it attached in a non-release mode, at least you have 100 feet (give or take) of line only with the weight, not the weight and the TX 44.  

Before you go way into this, next spring during the coho season take along a TX 44 and a chunk of something that weighs a pound, hook them to a line and let them out 30 or 40 yards while you are trolling then hand the rig off to one of the boys and say crank this in.  No fish, just the junk on the line. They’ll think you are nuts!  

Are you just trying to keep from using long lines? 

I'm wanting to run these in place of long lines due to the ease i could change depths and only need one rod and reel combo to do so. Real easy to change from running 35 ft deep to 60 ft deep instead of needing a whole 'nother weighted steel or lead core setup. I am going to steer clear of copper because i don't want to ever have to deal with kinks.
When I stated I'm setting the board to release, I only meant the front release.  The rear release will still be an OR release with the pin.  The board will stay put but will release from the front so it will not pull but rather hang there allowing me to reel the fish up the chute just as i do my dipsys.
I  know a 12 or 8 oz weight sounds like alot but on a 10-20 pound fish, will i even know the difference?
I am going to do a you advise and give this a trial run during coho season just to get the feel of it. I figure this will be the first rig i set out when I'm salmon fishing so i don't have to worry about the dipsys. When I go to reset i will let it straight back on slack line to clear my dipsys then tighten it up and swing it to the outside. I hope it goes as smoothly as it does in my head ,lol. But practicing with it before implementing it is a good idea.

1)  Experimentation is part of the fun, for sure, so have at it and good luck. 
2) I'm sure there are lots of people who won't give up their copper lines for anything and maybe they are so adept, they never have a problem with them. Good on them.  There's no doubt they copper line is effective. There's no doubt for me they were a pain to use. The kinks come mostly from the backlash that occurs mostly when putting out the first 40 or 50 feet. 
3)  I switched to weighted steel line last year (there's nothing weighted about it, it's just stranded steel wire line) and loved it in comparison to copper. I despooled all my copper reels and respooled with weighted steel. It's very backlash resistant, 10 times easier to unbacklash if it does happen. 
4)  Ponder this.  A 10 color leadcore or 100 steel should put your lure down about 35 feet.  So start with one of those rigs. Now add a two, three or four ounce snap weight (I use two ouncers). Put the snap weight just ahead of the leader to get max depth and let it all out.  Lots of variables, but a two ounce at the end of the line will likely have the same rig running around 60 feet.  Don't need that much?  Put out two colors then attach the weight. Let out half the wire, then attach the weight. Use a 3 or 4 ounce weight.  There are no dive curves available - especially at salmon speeds - but experimentation will let you know what's working.  Over time you'll get a "feel" that if fish are coming off the riggers or on the high diver at a certain depth or setting, you can duplicate that with  a 100 or 150 wire with a two ounce weight.  

Weighted steel was going to be my go to if I didn't decide to try these pump handle setups. Adding 2 oz snapweights to weighted steel does sound intriguing and would solve problems of getting a single setup deeper. If I don't like the pump handles,  I'll be going to weighted steel setups and of course I'll have more questions to follow, lol.
Thanks for your insight, BN