TOPIC:

Hello to all,
Just read an article about people asking why there are so many dead fish on Lake Michigan Beaches lately, Traverse City to lake Michigan. 

The answer: Alliwives!  
It appears that Lake Michigan is starting to have a influx of Alliwives coming in from the North Atlantic.

My first question is what has changed? 
This is exactly why the Kings were stocked back in the 60s.
I'm not aware of dead alliwives washing up on the beaches for a long time.

For me, its good news because I see it as a opportunity to stock more kings, steelhead, coho and brown trout. Yes I know that I left lake trout off my wish list. 
I think I've included the article. Not real good with this but I tried

Just to make clear, this is a rock radio station reporting on what random people said in the "Overheard in Traverse City" facebook group - not a very credible source at all.

Alewife did in fact originate from the Atlantic, but there's not really any regular influx to the upper great lakes (or to my knowledge, even the lower great lakes) from the ocean. Ours are established populations that ebb and flow based on the biological conditions in the lakes

Alewife die offs occur every spring around this time - they're stressed from overwintering, and then developing gonads for spawning takes a lot of their energy. Couple that with potential for very fast temperature changes as they move inshore to spawn (like we had with that heatwave in the 90s after a cold spring) and you get die offs

Small die offs aren't really indicative at all of the overall alewife population. 

However, there's been a lot of positive signs with the forage base. The cuts to predation pressure via reduced stocking have allowed bait to rebound somewhat. Still not like things were 20 years ago, and due to ecosystem changes that is fairly unlikely. But still approaching a point where I think there are serious discussions about increasing stocking numbers



 

They will never increase stocking in Michigan, the feds and the tribes have the MDNR by the balls.

The bait numbers already indicated they could, but they didn't yet due to politics. Jay Wesley released a statement to that effect.

SteveK wrote:

They will never increase stocking in Michigan, the feds and the tribes have the MDNR by the balls.

The bait numbers already indicated they could, but they didn't yet due to politics. Jay Wesley released a statement to that effect.

Not sure where your information comes from. Can't remember the feds having anything to do with state stocking. would like to see what quote of Jays your using.
There was not a a full agreement for stocking for 2022. Each state and tribes form a group and need full agreement to proceed in moving the numbers up. There was not a full agreement. Michigan is slated to stock for 2023 1 million kings.
Two years of covid put alot behind as far as information on bait. Each manager has to take in to account for sake of science what is out there. These are the same people that have worked hard for all of us to enjoy fishing and seeing bait improve which allows the managers alittle more freedom for future stockings. There is no conspiracy going on. Just science based management.
 

The stocking at this point is based on political negotiations with the tribes in the consent decree and not based on the availability of forage or the economic benefit of greater stocking. 

Here is the post by Jay where he said the plan for 2022 was not approved (though there was overwhelming support for it from anglers and the DNR). The "promise" to go to 1M kings in 2023 is just that - it has no clout behind it whatsoever. Read the meeting notes there and you will see the "science" and popular demand both point to increased stocking, and yet, we do not have increased stocking.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=7116...4&id=100026202244834

The feds own the DNR by pumping roughly 6 million lake trout into lake Michigan per year. This is regardless of bait numbers. Go on the USDA website and look at the stocking history. Again, driven mostly by tribal demand, in my opinion. It is totally hypocritical to point to baitfish population as a reason for not stocking silver's while the long-lived and voracious lake trout are being stocked to the tune of 6M per year.

Politics, not science.

Can't argue with someone that doesn't get it. By the way your also off on the laker stocking. The number is half of what you say it is. 

Again the folks you put down are the ones that helped save this lake Just the facts. 
 

I'm not trashing Jay because I don't know him or how he does his job day to day. I'm trashing the closed door political process which is currently deciding the future of our natural resource.

Again, if baitfish is the problem explain to me the lake trout stocking numbers through the entire decline of the alewife population.

I just read your reply or post about dead alliwives on the Beaches and I have a questions for you
Please dont take any offence, just would like to know if something has changed that I'm not aware of.
By the way, I just posted another picture of dead alliwives at Sleeping Bear Dunes.

What prevents alliwives from entering lake Michigan for the Atlantic now? Its always been my understanding that they can enter via the Soo Locks. I'll be 65 shortly and remember when the alliwives were a foot deep on Michigan City shore back in the late 60s and all the way up the east side of lake Michigan and they died because they came from salt water into fresh water.

As far as I know the alliwives can still enter lake Michigan.

I understand that lake Michigan has is own population of alliwives as well and I've see a few dead ones in the spring but its been one here and there. I haven't seen numbers of dead alliwives stacked on the Beaches since the late 60s and very early 70s.
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Trent, not trying to dis you, rather to help you not sound foolish.  The alewife came from the Atlantic. The Soo Locks connect Lake Michigan/Huron to Lake Superior.  The ales did get into the lake via locks - the St. Lawrence Seaway Locks, The Erie Canal Locks and the Welland Canal Locks. What few alewife are in Lake Superior got into that lake fhrough the Soo Locks.  There could still be alewives swimming from the Atlantic into the Great Lakes but it's a tiny number compared to the numbers added annually by natural reproduction of the alewife already in the Lakes. 

I'm not trying to sound foolish not at all! I've just learned never say never!

I understand that lake Michigan has it's own population of alliwives but according to the MDNR the population dwindled so low that that cut stockings of kings drastically.

I also remember a time when the alliwives population in the Atlantic dwindled.

My point to the dead alliwives is that we've not seen dead alliwives in the numbers laying on the beaches since the early 70s.

Alliwives can and still do enter lake Michigan as far as I know unless something has changed between 1968 and now..

I'm surprised that someone in this group would suggest that a fellow fisherman and sportsman or sportswoman would be foolish!

We are hear to grow our love for the sport and pass this great sport to the next generation that follow.
Suggesting a question or person discussing or asking a question Foolish. This kind of wording can and will stifle others not to ask questions in fear of being called foolish or something else.

I've fished lake Michigan since 1973 and have seen a lot of changes over the years so I'm definitely not new to this sport.

I respect you and your opinions and I will ask you if you know something that prevents alliwives from continuing to enter lake Michigan at this time?
Millions and millions entered back in the 60s, what's changed that would prevent that from happening again? This is a serious question, not trying to be foolish, I'm just not aware of anything that would prevent alliwives from entering lake Michigan.

Have a great day!

God Bless